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| Indonesian Ambassador to South Korea Umar Hadi underscores Indonesia, as ASEAN's only G20 member and the world's largest Muslim-majority nation, should work harder to be an example for ASEAN. / Korea Times photo by Choi Won-suk |
This is the fourth in a series of interviews with ASEAN ambassadors on the occasion of the 30th anniversary of ASEAN-South Korea relations. — ED.
By Yi Whan-woo
 |
Such characteristics motivate the country to set an example for ASEAN on the international stage and see cooperation with South Korea as becoming increasingly important, according to Indonesian Ambassador to Seoul Umar Hadi.
"The fact that Jakarta is the diplomatic capital of Southeast Asia and home for the ASEAN secretariat is of course something that Indonesians are very proud of," Ambassador Hadi told The Korea Times recently.
The secretariat has been in the Indonesian capital on Java since 1976, nine years after Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore and Thailand formed ASEAN.
It has coordinated economic development, peace and security with ASEAN and parties outside the group.
"And we really expect that ASEAN secretariat will serve all members of ASEAN and also its dialogue partners as best as it can," Hadi said.
Meanwhile, whether the ASEAN secretariat should also be relocated in line with Indonesia's plan to move its capital to East Kalimantan, a part of Borneo Island, is yet to be decided.
The Indonesian government is considering various options, such as moving the administration only or everything else.
Cooperation among middle powers
With U.S. President Donald Trump embracing protectionism and isolationism, free trade is under threat after lasting for over half a century under the U.S.-led international order.
Many countries also face a common question of how to cope with the growing U.S.-China rivalry over international security and trade.
Hadi reckoned such global challenges make Indonesia's cooperation more critical with other middle powers, especially with South Korea as members of MIKTA.
This is a group named after the initials of five middle powers in the G20 — Mexico, Indonesia, (South) Korea, Turkey and Australia.
"To me, countries like Indonesia and Korea are important because the two represent freedom. With that freedom, countries like Indonesia and Korea also want to have an international order that is free: free from domination, free from fear of war so you have a more peaceful and stable world. Countries like MIKTA should be the voice of multilateralism, peace, stability, solidarity and moderation," he said. "We have to be successful so that other countries look up to us and want to be like us."
Indonesia is ranked top among the Muslim-majority nations, with roughly 88 percent of its 264 million being Muslims. The number accounts for 13 percent of Muslims worldwide.
Taking this into account, Hadi sought for South Korea's support in raising awareness toward Indonesia's democracy, diversity and economy, stressing such efforts will help dismantle stereotypes about Muslims in ASEAN as well as the rest of the world.
The Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia (TAC) has served a key code of conduct for peace after it was signed by the five ASEAN founding members in 1976.
It led to another milestone agreement in 1995 — the Treaty on the Southeast Asia Nuclear Weapon-Free Zone (SEANWFZ) — that has prevented nuclear armament in the region.
These treaties, along with two U.S.-North Korea summits in Singapore and Vietnam, are proof of ASEAN's collective peace-building efforts.
And South Korea may emulate such efforts in promoting peace on the Korean Peninsula and Northeast Asia, according to Hadi.
He picked visits of all 10 ASEAN countries by President Moon Jae-in as the most notable moment in the 30 years of ASEAN-South Korea relations.
Moon is the only South Korean leader to complete the ASEAN tour that began with Indonesia in November 2017 and ended with Laos in September this year.
Hadi explained this is why he considers Moon's ASEAN trip a memorable moment in his term since May 2017.
For Hadi, the trip shows how much Moon cares about Indonesia, as much as Indonesian President Joko Widodo does for South Korea.
Widodo visited South Korea three times since taking office in October 2014. He scheduled to return in November for the ASEAN-ROK Commemorative Summit in Busan.
"So it's been a quite a satisfaction to me as an ambassador to serve in the time when the relationship between the two countries is at its best," Hadi said.
While the summit will be held to mark the 30th anniversary of ASEAN-South Korea relations, whether North Korean leader Kim Jong-un should come has been touted after Widodo brought up the idea in 2018.
Hadi did not elaborate on Widodo's proposal.
The ambassador still agreed with the Indonesian president, underscoring the idea is logical and in line with Indonesia's commitment for promoting dialogue and negotiations on the peninsula.
"Why not? Talking is always better than no talking," Hadi said.
Concerning Moon's New Southern Policy aimed at expanding cooperation with ASEAN, Hadi stressed on building it "into real actions" that mutually benefit ASEAN and South Korea.
Introduced in November 2017, the New Southern Policy came as many ASEAN countries are implementing strategies aimed at spurring economic growth through industrial transformation.
Being the world's largest archipelago, Indonesia is rich in raw materials and commodities, ranging from coal to steel, wood and rubber.
Under the Making Indonesia 4.0 initiative, the country seeks to revamp manufacturing sectors, become self-sufficient and lead in both upstream and downstream businesses.
"We want to do it for ourselves but other countries including South Korea are welcomed to help us," Hadi said.
Being one of South Korea's top two preferred investment destinations along with Vietnam, Indonesia has a presence of over 2,000 companies from Seoul, such as Samsung Electronics, LG Electronics and Lotte Chemical.
Accordingly, Indonesia has been taking measures aimed at making foreign investment easier, such as a single-window system and anti-corruption campaign in bureaucracy.
The South Korean businesses, however, find it difficult to compete in certain business sectors that have been dominated by Japanese enterprises as far back as the 1960s.
For instance, Japan accounts for over 90 percent of Indonesia's automotive industry. And Hyundai Motor is speculated to have an uphill battle in its ambitious project to set up a plant on Java — the biggest island among five major Indonesian islands — and start producing cars there in 2025.
Hadi reckoned a key for success would depend on how to approach the market, saying "I'm optimistic that they (South Korean companies) can get some share in the Indonesian market if they approach the market with the right attitude, right technology and right product, and of course the best after sales service."
He said there are other sectors in which South Korea has been dominant, such as garments and footwear.
A career diplomat, Hadi is also known for his passion for film.
He was a producer of the 2018 documentary "Bali: Beats of Paradise," in which Grammy Award-winning singer Judith Hill and celebrated Indonesian composer Nyoman Wenten pay homage to gamelan — the traditional ensemble music of Java and Bali as well as ancient Balinese dance.
A keen advocate of Balinese culture and heritage, Hadi joined the production while serving as consul general in Los Angeles from 2014 to 2017.
On whether a film can be more effective than diplomacy to address regional issues to outsiders, Hadi said it is a matter of story.
"Choosing a medium, whether it's film, music and dance, novel, book, is a question that should come after whether to have a story to tell, how you can develop such idea and to make it a compelling story," he said.
In addition, as the medium to strengthen cultural communication between Indonesians and South Koreans, the embassy supported by Seoul Metropolitan Government will hold the first and biggest Indonesian festival in Seoul called Festival Indonesia 2019 from Sept. 20 to 22 at Cheonggye Plaza.
The Festival Indonesia is aimed to commemorate the 35th anniversary of Seoul-Jakarta Sister City ties, the 74th anniversary of Indonesian independence and the 46th anniversary of bilateral relations between Indonesia and South Korea.
The following is a transcript of the interview.
Q1: What significance does the 30th anniversary of ASEAN-South Korea dialogue relations have for Indonesia and ASEAN?
- Please explain Indonesia's role in expanding ASEAN-South Korea ties as the home of the ASEAN Secretariat.
- How does Indonesia plan to help bolster such ties in the next 30 years?
A1: First of all, as a regional organization ASEAN highlights two objectives.
First is economic development and the second is regional peace and stability. ASEAN always seeks to build relationships with countries outside the region and is reaching out to other international organizations because in order to attain its objectives ASEAN needs to work with actors outside of the group. Hence ASEAN promotes excellent relations and cooperation with its dialogue partners. South Korea is one of the most important dialogue partners.
Secondly, the fact that Jakarta is the diplomatic capital of Southeast Asia is of course something that Indonesians are very proud of. And we really expect that the ASEAN secretariat in Jakarta will serve all members of ASEAN and also the dialogue partners as best it can.
The key words are mutually beneficial partnerships. Because the main objectives of ASEAN are economic development and regional peace and security, therefore efforts to build partnerships with our dialogue partners including South Korea should always focus on the attainment of those main objectives.
Q2: Please assess notable anniversary programs that already took place or will do so in ASEAN countries and South Korea.
- Also, as the home of the ASEAN Secretariat, please explain the role of Indonesia's mission in helping implement those programs.
A2: There are so many notable anniversary programs in ASEAN countries and South Korea. For me, the most important is the fact that President Moon Jae-in has visited every ASEAN member state in the past two years. The first one was Indonesia in November 2017, and last week President Moon Jae-in was in Thailand, Myanmar and Laos. So, I think now he has visited all ASEAN member states, and I think that is the best activity that marks the 30th anniversary of this relationship.
Q3: What are unique roles for South Korean-led Indonesian companies, such as Korindo Group, as well as South Koreans and Indonesians living in each other's country to consolidate ASEAN-South Korea ties?
A3: Let me tell you about the first wave of Korean companies that came to Indonesia back in the late 1960s and early 1970s. When Indonesia started to open up its economy in the late 60s and early 70s, the companies from other countries such as Japan and the United States came to Indonesia as big corporations like Toyota, Mitsubishi, Exxon Mobil and General Electric. On the contrary, Korean companies who came to Indonesia were small and medium companies, especially in the garment industry.
Longtime ago, a young couple from Korea arrived in Bandung City West Java and opened a small garment factory. They were of the first generation and I called them pioneers. Many of them stayed in Indonesia and had children in Indonesia. So that's why now I have met quite a number of young Koreans who were actually born in Indonesia. This is a very heartwarming story and experience that should serve as a reminder that actually it does not have to take a big corporation to start something because business opportunities are always there both in Indonesia and South Korea.
In South Korea, I met a young Indonesian in Busan who married a Korean lady and they started a business to import commodities from Indonesia. This type of pioneering business activity is actually very important to strengthen the relationship between Indonesia and Korea.
The big corporations from Lotte Chemical, in Cilegon or POSCO steel industry, are also very important, in terms of investment but again I should stress that small and medium enterprises are also playing a very important part to strengthen the ties.
Q4: As a country with the world's largest Muslim population, how can Indonesia help to enhance understanding and break stereotypes in Korea?
A4: Indonesia has always been known as a country with the world's largest Muslim population. Although we are a country with Muslim-majority, we are not an Islamic state. Indonesia is a constitutional democracy. Also, Indonesia is a diverse country, our constitution guarantees the freedom of worship, in accordance with one's religion/ belief. The best way for Indonesia to help to enhance understanding and break stereotypes is that Indonesia is becoming successful as a democracy and as an economic powerhouse.
When Indonesia is successful as an economic powerhouse then the image of Islam will change. Thus, other countries including Korea must support Indonesia to become more successful. So we can prove that Islam, democracy and economic development can go together, hand in hand, and we can have a population which is happy, prosperous and diverse.
Q5: How can the ASEAN Secretariat play a central role for ASEAN to consolidate its status as a platform for the denuclearization dialogue on the Korean Peninsula?
A5: Perhaps not limited to the ASEAN Secretariat but ASEAN as a group of countries. ASEAN as an organization can, and should, play an important role when it comes to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
Why? Because ASEAN is a nuclear weapons free zone. Back in 1971, ASEAN countries already agreed on the Zone of Peace, Freedom and Neutrality (ZOPFAN) which acknowledged the establishment of a Southeast Asia Nuclear Weapons Free Zone as an essential component. Also, ASEAN agreed on the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia that reflects ASEAN's commitment to resolving all differences, disputes and conflicts peacefully.
So, among ASEAN countries we agreed not to use force, or threaten to use force in dispute settlement. We use dialogue and negotiations. This type of norm or agreement at the regional level can be emulated in Northeast Asia, especially the Korean Peninsula.
Indonesia is always consistent in its commitment to have a nuclear weapons free zone. This is a very long-standing commitment and Indonesia always encourages others, including on the Korean Peninsula that we should build a region of peace, stability, and nuclear weapons free.
Q6: North Korea is ratcheting up its rhetoric against the South this year -- a stark contrast from November 2018 when Indonesian President Joko Wiodo first brought up the idea of inviting North Korean leader Kim Jong-un to the ASEAN-ROK Commemorative Summit. Taking this into account, do you think Kim still should be invited?
- What does President Wiodo think about his November 2018 proposal? Does he still remain unchanged with his idea or not?
- If any, please explain to what extent discussions have been had within the ASEAN Secretariat regarding the idea to invite Kim.
- What are the possible steps that the ASEAN Secretariat sees as critical for Kim's invitation to be realized?
A6: In my opinion, talking to each other is always better than not talking to each other. The path of dialogue, negotiation and peace are preferable to the path of armed conflict, war and provocation.
I think Indonesia has always been consistent in promoting dialogue and negotiations on the Korean Peninsula, so I think the idea of inviting Chairman Kim Jong-un is just logical and in line with those principles. Dialogue is always better than the use of force.
Q7: How effective do you think President Moon Jae-in's New Southern Policy has been for ASEAN countries overall?
- For Indonesia, how can it capitalize on the Northern Policy in relation to the Making Indonesia 4.0 initiative and create a win-win situation?
- Please explain the infrastructure, shipbuilding, maritime, tourism and other industries that Indonesia wants to expand on in terms of cooperation with South Korea.
A7: I see the New Southern Policy by President Moon Jae-in as a commitment from the Korean government to put more attention, focus and priority on countries in the Southeast Asian regions and also India. When we talk about Southeast Asia, we are talking about ASEAN. I think the term the New Southern Policy is comparable with Korea's previous policy back in the late 1980s called the "New Northern Policy." Back in the late 1980s, South Korea decided to open up and build a better relationship with its neighbors in the North, partly in response to China's open door policy.
With the New Southern Policy, South Korea wants to build better relations with Southeast Asia. I think this policy is very wise and timely. The fact that President Moon Jae-in especially follows up on this policy with practical measures is also very much welcomed. I think all ASEAN countries are looking forward to working closely together with South Korea to transform this policy into real actions which bring about mutually beneficial relationships between Korea and the Southeast Asian countries.
I think transforming Indonesia into a 4.0 industry is inevitable to become a more developed country. We must make the spirit of digital transformation as our priority. On that note, Korea has a lot of things to offer in terms of transfer of technology and investment. We are delighted to have cooperation in the spirit of 4.0 development in Indonesia.
Indonesia is a country with very rich natural resources. We have been blessed with lots of raw materials and commodities. From tea and coffee to natural mining resources like coal, Indonesia is even the second-largest supplier of coal to Korea. We also have wood products, minerals, palm oil plantations, rubber, natural rubber and so many more.
Indonesia is a very large country, rich in terms of both natural resources and human resources. We want to improve our manufacturing industries to revamp the development of upstream to the downstream sectors. I think that's the area that requires further cooperation.
Q8: Indonesia, along with Vietnam, are the top two most preferred investment destinations in ASEAN for South Korean companies. What are the factors behind attracting South Korean investment?
- How can Indonesia share its know-how with other ASEAN countries, especially those in the Mekong regions that receive relatively less investment from Seoul? Has there been a related discussion with the ASEAN Secretariat?
A8: We are of course very happy with the enthusiasm of Korean business owners to enter the regional market, especially ASEAN. But honestly, I personally expect more. It is good but it can be better.
I think the most important factor is of course because Indonesia has very rich natural resources. When you invest in Indonesia you are close to the source of natural resources, so it will be so much more efficient. Also, Indonesia has a big population and therefore it's a very big market. So, when you invest in Indonesia you are also getting closer to the market. Lastly, Indonesia has a young population and always improving it to become high quality human capital.
In terms of the process for doing business, now we have a "single submission system" that is very efficient and very fast. Also now it's very easy to get a working visa at the embassy.
Also, for the past 10 to 15 years the anti-corruption movement in Indonesia has been getting stronger.
Hence, I think new regulations, a cleaner bureaucracy and the ease of doing business are very interesting and very attractive to business owners.
Q9: A media report suggests the presence of Japan has been great in Indonesia and that it still poses a challenges for South Korean businesses. Based on this, please explain possible blue ocean or niche markets in which South Korean companies can be competitive.
A9: It depends on which sector of business. I understand, for example in the automotive industry, the Japanese presence is very strong. Japanese automobile trademarks are dominating the Indonesian market. Of course, it would be a difficult challenge for any car manufacturer from another country to enter the market, since Japanese cars have been there since the 1970s. But it is not impossible.
If you look at other sectors, I don't think that is the case. For example, in the garment and footwear industries, Korean companies are dominating the market. For example, Hansae Textile, Sae-A Trading and Kukdong Corporation are Korean companies with success stories in Indonesia.
At the end of the day, it depends on how they approach the market. I'm optimistic that Korean carmakers can get some share in the Indonesian market if they approach the market with the right attitude, the right technology, and the right product, and of course the best after-sales service. They can do it.
Q10: As members of MIKTA, how can Indonesia, South Korea and other middle-power nations can work together to better cope with change in decades-old international order, as witnessed from the U.S. trade protectionism, U.S.-China trade war, Russia's "violation" of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty and the withdrawal of the U.S. from that treaty?
A10: This is a very big question. To me, the reason why Indonesia and Korea are very important is that the two countries represent freedom. The people of the two countries enjoy freedom. You are free to express yourself to the best that you can. You are free to pursue education and to become the best version of yourself. That's why it's important. Also, as free democracies, countries like Indonesia and Korea aspire to promote an international order that is free, peaceful and stable.
With an international order, there is a kind of code of conduct of behavior among states, among countries. We call it multilateralism. So I think countries like Indonesia and Korea and countries like MIKTA should be the voice of multilateralism, the voice of peace, the voice of stability, the voice of solidarity among nations and the voice of moderation. That's why we have to become successful countries so other countries can look up to us and want to be like us.
Q11: How would you assess your term in South Korea? What do you think are notable achievements? In particular, please explain your role and expectation of the launch of the Indonesian Chamber of Commerce on Aug. 28, 2019.
A11: I've been doing my best for my country to enhance the partnership between Indonesia and Korea. As for an assessment and judgment, I would rather let others decide. One of the moments that I often like to mention is the fact that President Moon Jae-in visited Indonesia on his first state visit. This shows that he wants to have a very close relationship with Indonesia. On the other hand, President Joko Widodo has already been to Korea three times in his five-year term, and maybe four times this November. That shows how important Korea is to Indonesia. So, it's been quite a satisfaction to me as an ambassador to serve at the time when the relationship between the two countries is at its best.
I have been quite puzzled by the news about the launching of the Indonesian Chamber of Commerce's Seoul office on August 28, 2019. The embassy and I have had nothing to do with it. I have also received an official letter from the Chairman of the Indonesian Chamber of Commerce stating that it does not recognize the person claiming to represent the chamber. I would like to advise Korean businesses to contact the embassy directly should they have inquiries or plans to do business with Indonesia.
Q12: Please explain how you got interested in film and any challenges in doubling as a career diplomat and a producer of the documentary "Bali: Beats of Paradise."
- How more effective is it to address the traditional culture and natural beauty of a certain country than addressing it through diplomatic methods? Do you think a film also can be a more effective tool in addressing environmental protection?
A12: My passion is promoting Indonesian traditional art, music, and dance. To me, this film is a medium to tell a story about Indonesian traditional music, song, and dance. It's been quite a journey. I learned a lot about the movie-making process because before I came to Korea, I was the consul general in Los Angeles where Hollywood is. That made me really want to learn about the film industry. "Bali: Beats of Paradise" was made and produced in Los Angeles. In conclusion, I think I can tell my younger friends, that when you love doing something and you have a passion for it, time is not relevant.
The movie is a medium for story-telling, so I think the most important part is the story itself. When you have a story to tell, you can choose the medium like film, music, dance, a novel or an article. As long as you can develop the idea and make it a compelling story that can reach the hearts of the people. A story that invokes emotions.
Q13: Please share the significance of Indonesia's new capital.
A13: First of all, Jakarta used to be known as Batavia and has been a big city for a long time even before it became the capital of the Republic of Indonesia. Jakarta is big because this is a place where traders meet, where economic activities takes place. Since the 13th and 14th centuries, traders from China, India and Europe arrived in Jakarta. Since the very beginning, it was there, as a big city. We didn't build Jakarta as a capital city, because it came organically where all sorts of nationalities met and interacted through trade.
Nowadays Jakarta has become a huge metropolitan area, with more than 10 million people living there. We know that the city of Jakarta would have difficulties to support this population growth, that's why the plan to have a new capital, and East Kalimantan is I think a very logical option. We plan to move the capital to East Kalimantan over a 10-year period.
All cities in the world are sinking due to global warming and regarding your concern about Jakarta's coastal situation, we already use advanced technology and work together with the Netherland and Korean experts to protect the coastal area in Jakarta.
Q14: Is the Indonesia government aware of a former sex slavery camp in Java where Korean women were forcibly taken under the Japanese colonial rule? How is such camp being addressed in Indonesia?
A14: I understand the sensitivity of this issue, especially in Korea and also in Japan and I don't think I am qualified enough to provide a good answer.
Q15: Any last comments?
A15: I would like to re-emphasize my point that when it comes to ASEAN, what you need to underline is economic development, and regional peace and security. Everybody knows now that the world is getting more and more interconnected. So a problem in one part of the world can have an impact on other parts of the world.
That's why regional organizations like ASEAN, that has been very successful in maintaining regional peace and stability in the past 53 years since 1967, can be a good example. Because ASEAN still maintains regional peace and security and at the same time provides a stable environment for member countries to prosper and grow their economies. Perhaps we can emulate this lesson in other parts of the world. ASEAN may not be perfect, but it is still a good model for other regions.
